Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:25 am Post subject:
Lots more stuff going up but no new TSR as far as I can see
The Thieves World cover isn't the older (superior) version. I would have 100% gone after that early 80's cover but alas...
I have 6 TSR pieces arriving here later next week so I'm unsure how motivated I'll be to go after another one in Oct... Looks like I may go for the Fighting Fantasy at this point. Who knows though
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 18 Jun 2017 Posts: 148 Location: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:58 am Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
I have 6 TSR pieces arriving here later next week so I'm unsure how motivated I'll be to go after another one in Oct... Looks like I may go for the Fighting Fantasy at this point. Who knows though
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:13 am Post subject:
Quote:
Are there Fighting Fantasy book covers up too?
Yep, there's one. Armies of Death I think is the name. I got another FF cover just awhile ago from another collector (Phantoms of Fear) and it's much better than I expected from the pics. Ian Miller is amazing... If I can get a good pic I'll post it in the art area. Anyways, I might put a flyer on that other cover...
Quote:
All for the same list?
Nope, I got really lucky! I took a shot in the dark and sent out a letter to somebody and struck gold I'll tell more down the road. Really makes me happy to have some of these paintings!
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:08 am Post subject:
All those TSR items will hit those opening bids easily. I will be amazed if there's no reserve on those bad boys. The risks seem to be getting much larger every other day right now with the economy...
Opening bid on Armies of Death is too high. It's quite a large piece though! Especially considering it was on a small sized cover. Ian Miller > Chris Achilleos.
I wonder if that Caldwell Heavy Metal cover will go for more than his Dragon cover? The back cover maybe the best of that lot of his. All 3 of them are really nice.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:
Brom has the 1st bid of the TSR's. I think it's the weakest painting in that group except for the Elmore.
I dunno about the "estimates" cause they say $5,000 - $6,000 for that Brom and then the Jeff Jones Conan at $4,000 - $5,000 I think if a popular (maybe the best accorrding to Frazetta) artist does a Conan piece it's guaranteed to make $$$$$. The last Broms went pretty low as well...
I think the Jones Conan prelim will go for more also.
I think the Dameron maybe the best value of the lot.
I wanted to bid on Armies of Death but 1K+ buyers premium is too much to start. I dunno where they get 2-3K?? His Pin-up pieces do well and his iconic Heavy Metal painting sold for a mint but his other stuff.....
I like the Velez Myth cover!
If that Beauvais goes for 5-8K then do you think MS Hurt Feelings will lower the price on his Chessmen cover? Me neither
It's in my best interest to go after the Brom or one of the Caldwells. Will Captain Caldwell be monopolizing those things? I think Beaster has more $$$ than I do...
Too many possibilities...
Friday the 13th the series came out on dvd yesterday! Gonna watch one of those episodes and I will have a plan after that!
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:07 am Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
All those TSR items will hit those opening bids easily. I will be amazed if there's no reserve on those bad boys. The risks seem to be getting much larger every other day right now with the economy...
I hope there are no reserves. Those are all fairly meaty opening bids that would suggest we won't see anything astronomical when and if reserves are set.
Rifter wrote:
Opening bid on Armies of Death is too high. It's quite a large piece though! Especially considering it was on a small sized cover. Ian Miller > Chris Achilleos.
I wonder if that Caldwell Heavy Metal cover will go for more than his Dragon cover? The back cover maybe the best of that lot of his. All 3 of them are really nice.
It will be an interesting auction
Interesting indeed! I only wish we could continue to do this twice a year.
Rifter wrote:
Brom has the 1st bid of the TSR's. I think it's the weakest painting in that group except for the Elmore.
I agree with this thought.
Rifter wrote:
I dunno about the "estimates" cause they say $5,000 - $6,000 for that Brom and then the Jeff Jones Conan at $4,000 - $5,000 d'oh! I think if a popular (maybe the best accorrding to Frazetta) artist does a Conan piece it's guaranteed to make $$$$$. The last Broms went pretty low as well...
I think the Jones Conan prelim will go for more also.
I am a bit puzzled by these estimates as well. Some seem reasonable, while others seem unreasonable by what would seem like too much or too little. I like the too little as a buyer.
Rifter wrote:
I think the Dameron maybe the best value of the lot.
As it stands now, it does seem on the low side compared to several other items. The Caldwell seems a little on the low side as well. Not sure JF thinks as much of the TSR items vs. some of the other traditional fantasy illustrators.
Rifter wrote:
I wanted to bid on Armies of Death but 1K+ buyers premium is too much to start. I dunno where they get 2-3K?? His Pin-up pieces do well and his iconic Heavy Metal painting sold for a mint but his other stuff.....
Rifter wrote:
I like the Velez Myth cover!
I agree with this. It might be the strongest piece of the entire lot. Possibly his masterpiece?
Rifter wrote:
If that Beauvais goes for 5-8K then do you think MS Hurt Feelings will lower the price on his Chessmen cover? Me neither Crying or Very sad
This piques my interest the most. I'd toss $5k at this painting. But not much more. If I'd just spent $10k on another one, I'da not want to see this go so low. Very interesting.
Rifter wrote:
It's in my best interest to go after the Brom or one of the Caldwells. Will Captain Caldwell be monopolizing those things? I think Beaster has more $$$ than I do...
Too many possibilities...
Friday the 13th the series came out on dvd yesterday! Gonna watch one of those episodes and I will have a plan after that!
Captain Caldwell. HAHA
Not for me. Gonna pass up another opportunity for a Caldwell. I'll be holding out for something prettier. _________________
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:29 am Post subject:
Quote:
Those are all fairly meaty opening bids that would suggest we won't see anything astronomical when and if reserves are set.
I think the Velez "Thieves World" covers are his best. I was thrown off when Heritage listed the date of the original book Vs the newer (and worse) cover art. I'd like the Myth painting though... I have 0 idea what it will go for and likely wouldn't attempt a bid considering my $$$ is finite.
Those Caldwells are all very nice. Really strong group of TSR paintings across the board! Dameron did some R.E.H. covers in the late 70's (I have a book listing all the printings of Howard books and covers) so that's why it has that sort of feel.
Honestly, there are 6-7 paintings there that I would be happy to own. I have a list of available TSR pieces incomming so that will dictate what I can do on Heritage. If I had a good idea about the Heavy Metal covers I'd likely go after one of those... I still think there will be high reserve prices.
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:
Then I will be shocked and amazed.
There's still plenty of time for them to vascillate. I can think of 1 or 2 (or maybe 700 Billion) reasons why they might want a reserve on those paintings.
The upside for this auction is the prices realized one year ago. That's the only upside. Everything else (to me at least) seems to be negative. If the lot in general doesn't do well, it doesn't just have an impact on the profits that they make but it devalues their entire collection.
Who is going to want to pay high for a Beauvais if this one sells for 5K? Or a Caldwell? Or an Elmore.... It goes across the board for all of their collection and the seemingly large # of sales that they do year round. Things will likely be much worse in the next few weeks and people are going to be scared to shell out $$$. This is only my opinion but I think it's pretty logical...
Last edited by Rifter on Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject:
If they put reserve prices on those pieces several of them will likley not sell. This is understandable and it wont reflect negatively on the collection (and our collections) as much as people will agree that it's just very bad timing to have this auction.
If there's 0 reserve and the paintings sell for near the opening bids... This is a disaster IMO. The opening bids really aren't that high considering (once again) where the market was seemingly going less than 1 year ago. These aren't second rate paintings either! They will be the 'line in the sand' when you purchase future pieces from the same artists. If they sell low it will devalue that specific collection by 100s of thousands of dollars.
"The people who can aford it" "It's a good time to buy" "Overseas collectors"... All those lines that sugar coat the reality of the situation are just BS. Again, my own humble opinion
Note: I'm presently doing well and can afford to buy one or two of these pieces (Likely one if this was happening a year ago) so I'm more than happy if there's 0 reserve and everything goes cheaper than expected. I just happen to think that were (The world in general) in a state of denial presently...
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Nah.. I recon the min prices you see are it...
Finally, you and I have both bought painting/s from the seller and paid (or negotiated) near the asking price. What sense would it make for them to take a huge loss (compared to their asking price) on Heritage? That is purely nonsensical. "Just wanted to have a little fun and auction off all these killer paintings and I really don't care if I lose any money cause I simply don't have enough room for them anyways..." = BS.
The reality is this: The final prices one year ago were amazing. It was a sellers market pure and simple. This whole venture is based on that 1 auction. Would you deny it?
Now, if you don't agree with me, you think nothing has really changed. Even then, you have to admit that there's a growing possibility that things might (already did awhile ago...) hit the fan in the near future. If this was you, you wanted to sell some paintings, would you be optimistic or pessimistic if your auction was firing off in a few weeks? If you had everything to lose would you want your auction happening in a couple weeks or at a possibly later time? If you had everything to lose would you play it safe? If you listed all your Caldwells on Heritage and this little economic collapse problem occured after it was too late for you to reconsider would you put a reserve on them?
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject:
It's not just art. The rpg collectible market is going down right now, especially the mid and high-priced items. The LT that just closed was the second one to close for less than $1100 in the past year. I bet Troll & Toad is shaking his head. When they got into it everything was on the up and paid top $$$ for stuff. Now they can't get what they paid. The woodgrains have been going down for awhile now too. I doubt the folks who paid $4K+ for a first could get half of it back right now. The interest in the Aussie stuff has seriously waned also. Only two people in the whole world felt that that last auction was worth $300, otherwise it would have went for $27. I think it was a couple of years ago that someone bought a bunch of Aussies in shrink and paid through the nose for them. They can't be feeling too good atm. I have a couple things like that in my rpg collection also, but luckily, I have a pretty diverse collection so the overall value hasn't changed much.
Nobody in this business likes to look like a fool, but humble pie, I'm afraid, might become the main course for the next few years. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject:
Rifter wrote:
Quote:
Nah.. I recon the min prices you see are it...
Finally, you and I have both bought painting/s from the seller and paid (or negotiated) near the asking price. What sense would it make for them to take a huge loss (compared to their asking price) on Heritage? That is purely nonsensical. "Just wanted to have a little fun and auction off all these killer paintings and I really don't care if I lose any money cause I simply don't have enough room for them anyways..." = BS.
The reality is this: The final prices one year ago were amazing. It was a sellers market pure and simple. This whole venture is based on that 1 auction. Would you deny it?
Now, if you don't agree with me, you think nothing has really changed. Even then, you have to admit that there's a growing possibility that things might (already did awhile ago...) hit the fan in the near future. If this was you, you wanted to sell some paintings, would you be optimistic or pessimistic if your auction was firing off in a few weeks? If you had everything to lose would you want your auction happening in a couple weeks or at a possibly later time? If you had everything to lose would you play it safe? If you listed all your Caldwells on Heritage and this little economic collapse problem occured after it was too late for you to reconsider would you put a reserve on them?
I think the idea and purpose of an auction is to let the market forces work themselves out. I am all for $1 opening bids, personally. Obviously, the Franks feel a bit differently. But you will see there is a suggested estimate on the value of the paintings. In most cases, they are much higher than the opening bids. Some buyers find exorbitant opening bids to be antithetical to the spirit of an auction, which might actually lessen the pool of bidders. The Franks already have a store online with which to ask what they are really looking for, but they have chosen to take them all to auction.
On the economy. I heard a very interesting bit on NPR on the way home that describes what is happening in our financial system. It was great and I'd like to listen to it again. The American economy is in a perilous position but all is not lost yet. The worst thing we could do at this point, as a nation, is to squirrel away all we own in fear of a collapse. This thinking will place us squarely in a recession, at best. _________________
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Last Visit: 18 Jun 2017 Posts: 148 Location: Cairns, Queensland, Australia
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject:
I see that point of view and I suppose I would have to agree, in this sort of market I suppose you would like to limit your (potential) losses.. I wonder if the auction house has made some sort of gurantee, that whould have been the smart thing to do, shifts all the risk to them and they might have given it due to the large size and the collection that it comes from, would have been a nice draw card and the prices that were being realised were very good, they migh have made the same mistake the banks made and believed the good times would keep on rolling on...??
I'm not overly concerned at the price realised, of course I would prob not be too happy if the paintings are "devalued" but then I was happy enough when i purchased them and the $$ has been spent so there is no going back. No one likes to see they could have bought something for a lot less $$, but hay its only money...
From my point of view, the exchange rate has dropped about 20%, may shares have dropped only 10-15% (I've been lucky, from what I've seen average is about 20-30% drop, or if you were unlucky some shares got wipped out), my income has prob dropped 20% or so (but this has been my painting $$ my houses in my mind haven't changed (I think Im concervitave when I think of what they are worth), painting (?) prob dropped a bit, but then the change in exchange rate off sets this for me;)... things change in price, they go up and down, but you don't realise the loss/profit untul you sell.. i don't really see my paintings as an investemt to much... on the down side, a year or two ago I would have been bidding on a couple of those paintings without hesitating, now I'm prob holding back and takeing a good hard think about it... that an I have to drop $30k on a brand new car in the next week at least.. oh well, I can't afford to die at the moment at least...
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:39 am Post subject:
Quote:
The worst thing we could do at this point, as a nation, is to squirrel away all we own in fear of a collapse. This thinking will place us squarely in a recession, at best
This is true. Choosing not to buy art may not be squirreling away money though
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The American economy is in a perilous position but all is not lost yet.
I feel sorry for new home owners and people undertaking new business ventures/small businesses... Were basically relying on the same people that got us into this mess to get us out:shock: What if the 700B fails? Then were super screwed... If America's the Titanic then everyone else (Beaster;-) is a passenger on board without a raft There was a 60 minutes article about 4 years ago and they were talking about Fanny Mae and those people were so cocky and there were these people who couldn't pay back the loans and then the Fanny Mae people were like, "well they just have to pay it back." I guess we know how that worked out...
I have a feeling this will be one of those tip of the iceberg deals like when there's an epidemic and everyone's sort of oblivious and then it all goes to hell really suddenly.
Maybe an O.T. topic but I feel it will hit our end of the hobby.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject:
Reserves have been applied. They are significant shift upward, even though the asking reserve is still less than the printed 'estimates'. _________________
Joined: 12 May 2008 Last Visit: 12 Nov 2015 Posts: 144
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:07 am Post subject:
Knew those were coming. If they're lucky this thing will fire off before a complete economic collapse occurs. Crossed fingers I'm sure It seems like it's only a matter of days at this point...
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I'll tell more down the road. Really makes me happy to have some of these paintings!
I think if a popular (maybe the best accorrding to Frazetta) artist does a Conan piece it's guaranteed to make $$$$$. The last Broms went pretty low as well...
