Dungeon Masters Guide (1979)

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 872g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.9cm

From the preface: "What follows herein is strictly for the eyes of you, the campaign referee. As the creator and ultimate authority in your respective game, this work is written as one Dungeon Master equal to another. Pronouncements there may be, but they are not from 'on high' as respects your game. Dictums are give for the sake of the game only, for if Advanced Dungeons & Dragons is to survive and grow, it must have some degree of uniformity, a familiarity of method and procedure from campaign to campaign within the whole. Advanced D&D is more than a framework around which individual DMs construct their respective milieux, it is above all a set of boundaries for all of the 'worlds' devised by referees everywhere. These boundaries are broad and spacious, and there are numerous areas where they are so vague and amorphous as to make them nearly nonexistent, but they are there nonetheless."

Additional image(s):




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The word "Advanced" measures 5.1cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is yellow. Current evidence suggests that this is a first printing. The "D" tends to roll off the face of the cover, but not always. The best marker is the length of the word "Advanced." Other markers are not as reliable. The misaligned "E," for example, is not always misaligned in the 5.1cm example (see below).

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 862g
Dimensions: length 28.2cm, width 22.1cm, thickness 1.8cm

Additional image(s):




==============================
This sample appears the same as above in most respects. The flyleaf is yellow and the "Advanced" in the banner measures 5.1cm in length. However, the "E" is not misaligned and there is no red dot below the "N." The letters printed over the shield now have a yellow shadow to the left, mirroring the position in the sample above. There are other anomalies.

Does anyone know when and where Dragonmeet was held in 1979?

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 832g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.9cm

Additional image(s):





==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is yellow. What separates this printing from all others is the presence of pages from the Monster Manual. Pages 98/99, 102/103, 106/107, and 110/111 were misplaced into the press for this DMG printing. It's unclear which Monster Manual the pages come from. Pages 110/111 appear to be from the 3rd edition Monster Manual, December 1978 (yellow title). Pages 98/99 appear to be from the 4th edition Monster Manual, August 1979 (yellow title). In the description for Vampire, the old phrase "per turn of immersion" has been replaced with "per round of immersion." The presence of pages from two different Monster Manuals suggests that a printing could exist with the 3rd edition product list and the 4th edition Vampire. The image with the Umber Hulk above is from page 97.

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 824g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.9cm

Additional image(s):





==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is yellow. This print is believed to be the result of a recall. The Monster Manual pages in the print above were replaced with the correct DMG pages. As a result of this process, a new flyleaf was pasted over the old and the inside margins crept inward. These two markers differentiate this printing. Because of the re-binding, this DMG will not lay open (except for the covers).

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 732g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.6cm

Additional image(s):



==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is white. This printing also weighs considerably less than those above, suggesting a lighter paper.

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games, Revised Edition December 1979
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 238 page hardcover
ISBN: 0-935696-02-4
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 742g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.7cm

Additional image(s):







==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is back to yellow again. This printing appears to be the first example of the Revised DMG. It now sports an ISBN number on the title page, rear cover (lower left), and spine (bottom). The content has now been expanded to 238 pages, the bottom of which is listed above.

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games, Revised Edition December 1979
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 238 page hardcover
ISBN: 0-935696-02-4
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 770g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 1.6cm

Additional image(s):



==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is back to white again. Identical to the 1st Revised Edition above in all other respects.

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games, Revised Edition December 1979
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 240 page hardcover
ISBN: 0-935696-02-4
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 818g
Dimensions: length 28.6cm, width 22cm, thickness 1.8cm

Additional image(s):



==============================

The word "Advanced" measures 4.5cm in length in the banner. The flyleaf is white. This edition has been expanded further to 240 pages. It now has page numbers printed up to 238. The old 237/238 are now 239/240 and remain unpaginated.

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Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011/394-51114-XTSR1500
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games, Revised Edition December 1979
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 240 page hardcover
ISBN: 0-935696-02-4
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 844g
Dimensions: length 28.4cm, width 21.9cm, thickness 1.9cm

==============================

Upgraded cover. The banner has changed and a new TSR logo graces the cover.

[tfm]

That's all I have Ralf. Paul Stormberg did a thorough analysis of the DMG a couple of years ago. I don't follow DMG research too closely, but there are probably other prints out there. Printing designation is such a messy business with something like the DMG, where there are many potential variations. The second printing I have listed above with the Monster Manual pages was corrected to include the right pages, making the correction a true third printing, but collectors talk about them as 2nd A and 2nd B. Supposedly another version was done afterwards with damage to the cover, but one hasn't surfaced yet. Who knows. The two first prints I have listed above have enough differences that they could be different print runs, but they would have to be compared with a dual-form document viewer.
_________________
"This is cool."

[Ralf Toth]

OK, again the question: Could the white and orange flypapers come from the same print run? Here's a possible scenario: "Eh, boss, we've run out of the orange flypapers, how shall we continue?" - "Go get some of the white ones, the books must be shipped tomorrow."

Is this utterly unrealistic?

Same question goes to the printing with the "fish eyes" you posted. Could this be an anomaly from the print run? One of my business's customers is a printer, they have a gigantic modern press and produce daily newspapers and stuff. This $100,000,000-machine is state of the art, but the production manager told me, that the quality of the print varies throughout the entire print run. And this with a modern machine. So I imagine there are all kinds of printing anomalies, and I'd rather not distinguish printings unless it is an obvious difference (such as one version has ISBN, the other hasn't etc.).

This is just an opinion, (hopefully) subject of further discussion.
_________________
Tome of Treasures - #1 resource for collectible role-playing games.

[Ralf Toth]

Kynan, the third post in this thread, is this the copy that went for $1,425.99 in Sep 14 2006?

I have updated the item page. I have used a simplified printing sequence. Please have a look if you're satisfied.
_________________
Tome of Treasures - #1 resource for collectible role-playing games.

[tfm]

Yes. Not the exact copy, but the same printing with the MM pages.

This sentence:

Picture to the left: Cover of a 1st printing DMG with Monster Manual pages. (courtesy of Kynan Connor, USA).

Should read "2nd printing."

The covers aren't even the same. The word "Advanced" is a different length. Christophe's example is the first printing. The one with MM pages is a second printing. If the Dragonmeet example above is shown to be different than Christophe's, then the MM DMG would become a third and so on.

There are many printings of the DMG. It, like everything else, is a work in progress.
_________________
"This is cool."

[Plaag]

Shall try and get some info and scans up tomorrow (or later today for some folks )

Couple "1st's" don't seem to have the red dot
Perforated pages in one book have survey card while another book does not (see no sign of being torn out, but ya never know)
And one I shall call 'Ate' seems to be the only book that is large at 28.6 x 22.4 (and see much more of picture on the back and ISBN on cover page not close to the very bottom which the perforated ones are) compared to the others at 28.3 x 22.2.

I've got 9 non-orange spine DMGs with only one (TSR face logo) currently not doubled with another.

ShaneG.
_________________
I reject your reality and substitute one of my own!

[grodog]

I have a few as well, including one of the damaged covers from the IIRC (though no MM pages in any of mine ).
_________________
grodog
---
Allan Grohe
grodog@gmail.com
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/

[tfm]

There is another way to evaulate DMGs that I haven't discussed with anyone yet, but it works pretty well with the small sampling I've conducted. If you have two DMGs that appear the same but feel different or seem different, try measuring the text block between like pages. Even if you get one millimeter of variance you have another print. The Dragonmeet example above, which has the large "Advanced," also has a short stitch on the bottom. The stitching should run 16mm, but the bottom running up counts 13, 18, 14, 16. If you go to page 128 and look at the table in the left-hand column, the number '9' in the Level column is not crisp. It's barely noticable in the GenCon XII DMG, but it's quite distorted in the Dragonmeet sample. I'm guessing that the clear '9' indicates an earlier point in time in the printing process with that particular plate, but neither of these is good evidence for a different print. There needs to be something more solid.

I've posted the ones I've got but there are undoubtedly other prints out there with the efreet cover.
_________________
"This is cool."

[Ralf Toth]

I know it is false. I was waiting for Paul Stormberg to see if he allows us to make use of his research in the DMG.

I will add a remark on the DMG page later today.
_________________
Tome of Treasures - #1 resource for collectible role-playing games.

[Plaag]

Had hoped to post images and stuff earlier, but computer seems to want to cause me headaches. Shall see if I can fix this for good, o rmay just have to fork over money for a new one

ShaneG.
_________________
I reject your reality and substitute one of my own!

[Plaag]

These are the spines of 5 different versions.

Going by loosely those DMG's listed:
1st - Advanced word over hangs, Wizard logo over foot - 232pg
2nd - Has MM pages - 232pg
3rd - rebound, pasted over flyleaves - 232pg
4th - white flyleaves - 232pg
5th - Revised w yellow flyleaves - 238pg
6th - Revised w white flyleaves - 240pg (up to pg 236 numbered, 239/240 are survey)
7th - Revised w white flyleaves - 240pg (up to pg 238 numbered - seems to be the tallest DMG)
8th - TSR face logo - 240pg (up to pg 238 numbered - seems to be less wide then other DMGs)

From left to right then they are: 1st, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th

I do have an oddity with one that falls between 6th and 7th in that it is 240pgs, up to 238 numbered, and last two pages are perforated. Does have the isbn, etc of the 7th, but is smaller in size then 7th.

So what all measurements are we trying to obtain to see if things match up..spine stitching, certain word lengths, etc???

ShaneG.
_________________
I reject your reality and substitute one of my own!

[tfm]

Title: Dungeon Masters Guide
Item Code: 2011
Type: Rules for the AD&D fantasy role-playing system
Copyright: 1979 by TSR Games
Authors: Gary Gygax
Artwork: David C. Sutherland III, D. A. Trampier, Darlene Pekul, Will McLean, David S. La Force, and Todd Oleck
Place of Publication: Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, United States
Format: 232 page hardcover
ISBN: n/a
Cover Price: n/a
Mass: 874g
Dimensions: length 28.3cm, width 22.2cm, thickness 2cm

Additional image(s):





=======================

This DMG has double endpapers with a three-staple repair. This is different from the stitched repair the similar example listed above. What makes this example very much different is that pages 33-48 have been included twice. Bear in mind that this example comes after one screw-up in the printing process.

I have some questions here before I try to place it within a printing context. It certainly seems a given that two versions of the DMG with double end papers exist, as indicated by the differences in repair (staple vs. stitch). The print quality is quite different in the two double-end paper examples I have. I'm guessing that the staple repair followed the Monster Manual problem and that the stitch followed the scratched binding problem.
Does that sound right or is there another explanation? They wouldn't have to unstitch the pages if they were replacing the cover, but they would have to rip out the stitches if they were replacing pages.
_________________
"This is cool."