Incredible

[harami]

Perhaps I should be happy that the seller didn't get all those back, otherwise the temptation to "second chance" the bundle to the underbidder might've been too great.
If/when those go up again, I'll be reporting them to eBay as he blew any remaining credibility he had by declining to tell bidders about that voluntarily. I trust you didn't encourage him to relist deliberate fakes, Kynan, since I thought you were totally against that sort of thing?

Cheers & Thanks for the update,
David.

[tfm]

I told him they were reprints and that if he should try to list them again to put that in his description. True, I hate that sort of thing, but they're his--I can't tell him not to.
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"This is cool."

[tfm]

Another used-to-be high dollar item goes for next to nothing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130272875345

Chainmail 1st edition_ 1-27-08 ebay290200194774 G $1924

There was another that closed not too long after this for $2500 or something.

Between the economy and the bad collecting blood out there I don't expect it to get any better anytime soon. Hopefully, some new people will take advantage of the downturn. Either that or D&D will join the Pantheon of Beanie Babies and Precious Moments.
_________________
"This is cool."

[Mars]

[cgould42]

Wow! Seeing a 1st Print Chainmail sell for less than a grand just kills me. It was not too long ago I would have jumped on that but the economy has forced me to curtail my purchases for the time being. Unfortunate as it seems there are a lot of deals to be had if one can afford it.

Cheers,
Curt

[tfm]

Well, I've stopped putting my money into ebay and the prices for the things I would buy reflect it. If a couple more high-end collectors also do the same, then the high-end is finished. To be certain, unless a collector bought this stuff before ten years ago, the value of collections assembled in that time have gone down by a third. Of the stuff I've bought, the only things that I could my money back on are the things I bought first. The competition between collectors has been fierce, driving up prices and creating exposure for the hobby, but now that they're down that exposure will go down too. The economically-based promotion vehicle that hobby has relied on for self-promotion is dead. What will the hobby do now? As long as 'getting it' is more important than 'teaching it' the downward spiral will continue. Will anyone even care twenty years from now? It does not look promising.
_________________
"This is cool."

[cgould42]

I think as long as people continue to play D&D #ED or other RPGs the hobby will continue to survive in some form. I believe most people start collecting RPG to capture memories from a period in there life. Some expand their interest once they get started as other areas of the hobby appeal to them. I never played OD&D or most other RPGs but my interest in 1E/2E D&D opened the door to the hobby and created other areas of interest.

That said I fully agree there needs be a supportive network of follow collectors in order for the hobby to thrive. The best thing about sites like the Tome is it is a place where a collector can go where others at least to some degree understand their passion and information can be shared and passed on.

I know in 20+ years I will still care Part of my retirement plans are to finally be able to spend the time I would like on my collection, both in research and playing the game(s).

Cheers,
Curt

[tfm]

Yes, but once the 'caring' generation who buys for nostalgic reasons drops dead, nostalgia will cease to be an active force in the hobby. Then what?
_________________
"This is cool."

[cgould42]

A new caring generation is in the works. I know that the younger generation is playing paper RPGs. Eventually part of that generation will move into the position where they will want to collect the product they played when they were younger and that will open the door for further collecting. I think until people stop playing the games there will be RPG collectors.

Cheers,
Curt

[Rifter]

[tfm]

That's good advice. Thanks. I am pretty burned out, but I look at it as my fault. My background is academic and so that's kind of the approach I had to the whole thing. I do feel that saving things for the future is a good idea, but what surprised me the most, and I think you've picked up on it, is that the 'community' doesn't share that aspiration. It never occurred to me that collectors wouldn't want that, and that assumption is my fault entirely. And you're right. Everything on the internet is, basically, amateur night. That's where I wanted to make the change, to make it professional, to apply academic standards to it in order to elevate into public discourse. My work here has been an experiment to gauge the interest by providing an opportunity for participation. As you can see, there have some bright lights in the darkness but no community. It's pretty easy to walk away from it now.
_________________
"This is cool."

[Rifter]

The funny thing for me was when I sold my collection, I wanted to keep a few items just so I would have something left and the items that I really cared about the most were not the big time $$$ items Be warned that there's some regret there but not enough that I have considered starting anew. The art eats up too much $$$ either way

Like I was saying though, I started feeling the same way about the art until I had a kind of epiphany or whatever it was. There's an emptiness in collecting (I think) unless you're a part of the process somehow. I took a very radical approach as far as that goes but I think the site you have here and the work that you guys are doing is certainly part of the "process" and could be fullfilling (albeit overwhelming at times). Maybe you just need a break Just don't do anything rash and take a big loss if you decide to sell. Many people out there in our "community" will nickel and dime you... I think this site is seemingly dedicated collectors and as you can see it's a very small group. I think the majority of online collectors on some other sites are actually small time dealer types just looking to make a quick score. Kinda like the local baseball card shop owners from back in the day...

[grodog]

[Blackmoor]

I might just add a few opinions of my own here about collecting and "investing" in high end collectables.

Anytime anybody speculates on anything there are people that lose out big time. Look at what the Speculators did to the price of oil and natural gas over the last 8 months ($140 down to $40). Normally it is the speculators that lose out.

I have been through this up and down cycle before, I collect comics as well as games and in the early 90’s the bottom fell out of the comic market. The Speculators had ruined it for everybody buying 100’s of each issue and marking them up almost immediately as collector’s pieces. Who lost out the most at that time? You guessed it, it was the speculators. The collectors who bought and enjoyed the books are still doing so. One thing to note! While you can get most comics from the late 80’s and early 90’s for about 10 cents each, the early, rare and important comics are still very valuable and gaining value every year.

Consistently rare collectables hold there value over time, the key is patience and timing.

The regular collectors if they are patient will get what they are after for a reasonable price. For example I was trying to get a limited edition miniature a few years back, they were fairly common and were going for about $50.00 on EBay. I was patient and put a $20 bid on every one for two years; finally I won one from Australia. My wife painted it up for me and it is an awesome piece.

There is a decline in the value of rare RPG’s right now, no question. As a “High End Collector” I have seen the value of many of my items depreciate over the last 8 months. What else has depreciated for me? Well it is the same as everybody, my savings, my retirement plan, and my house value. Thing is I still need a place to live so I don’t care about the value of my house, I really like my rare RPG items so I am not going to sell them and lose money, I am still working (somewhat anyway) so my savings and retirement money will have a chance to recover.

What I am trying to say really is be patient, don’t sell in a down market, don’t panic and don’t cry about it.

Happy New Year

PS: Lets just cross 2008 off of the map, it really sucked
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Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games.

[tfm]

I invest in people, not collectibles. My interest in valuation is solely in its connection to promotion of the hobby. The more things are worth, the more attention they receive. Therefore, if the value falls, then it does say something about the interest. The simple fact that the Role-Playing category on ebay holds 60% of what it did two years ago says something. With a bad economy a person would think selling would be up, not down. In my opinion the valuation vehicle which the hobby has relied upon for exposure and promotion is dead. If something else doesn't come along to say, "Look at this great stuff! It's important and can teach as well as entertain," then I think the game is over. As I told Aaron when I sent my first of soon-to-be many boxes to him, I wanted to use my degree to help promote the hobby through the scholastic side of things--writing grant proposals, submitting articles to scholarly journals, designing a college course to study the role-playing game phenomenon; basically, the who, the what, the where and the why. What I've discovered is that I am next to alone in that desire. The bulk of collectors don't have any interest in promoting the hobby outside of adding to their own collections. My problem is that I didn't recognize that. The collective consciousness to do something more doesn't exist within the current community. The best moment is still what might be called the Sutherland moment. Anyway, it stands in my mind of what is possible when people work together. Of course, in 50 years, no one will even know it happened. I've met some great people in this hobby, and that I'm thankful for. And then there's the not-so-great. Well, they're stuck with themselves and their habit. I feel nothing but pity for those junkies. It's a hard habit to kick.
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"This is cool."

[grodog]

Hi Kynan---

[tfm]

I admire your faith Allan, I really do. I just don't have any interest in watching the hobby continue to flounder like an Al Gore presidential campaign.
_________________
"This is cool."